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September 18, 2011
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:iconcynicalserenade:

PLANTS LIKE LIVING, TOO!


:iconx-divider1::iconx-divider2::iconx-divider2::iconx-divider2::iconx-divider2::iconx-divider2::iconx-divider2::iconx-divider2::iconx-divider2::iconx-divider2::iconx-divider2::iconx-divider2::iconx-divider2::iconx-divider2::iconx-divider2::iconx-divider2::iconx-divider3:

A stamp requested by a good friend.

Vegan circle-jerking and rude comments will be hidden. Friendly debate, however, is encouraged.

Please use the comments to demonstrate your own ignorance, unfamiliarity with empirical data, ability to repeat discredited memes, and lack of respect for scientific knowledge. Also, be sure to create straw men and argue against things I have neither said nor even implied. Any irrelevancies you can mention will also be appreciated. Lastly, kindly forgo all civility in your discourse... you are, after all, on the Internet.

/sarcasm
:iconx-divider1::iconx-divider2::iconx-divider2::iconx-divider2::iconx-divider2::iconx-divider2::iconx-divider2::iconx-divider2::iconx-divider2::iconx-divider2::iconx-divider2::iconx-divider2::iconx-divider2::iconx-divider2::iconx-divider2::iconx-divider2::iconx-divider3:

You're not better than me because you're a vegan/vegetarian. You're just as much of a "badguy" as I am. You're still eating something that lived. For those of you with holier-than-thou attitudes, you can take it and shove it up your ass. In the meantime, I'm off to go hunt, eat some burgers, pick up some nice wolf pelts, and support companies that humanely test life-saving drugs on animals.

EDIT: It's not about feeling pain, that isn't the message the stamp is trying to convey. It's about plants living just like animals are. Just because they don't have a cute face or can't feel pain, doesn't justify a vegan/vegetarian's actions. And then it goes into the whole "we used that same excuse for what we now view as unforgivable crimes," and how we could easily anesthetize a human or an animal, but in their minds, that is still "murder." They never give a logical reason for why they choose to kill a plant over an animal.

Just as the article below states, there are animals without brains, so they cannot feel pain - would you eat them? For example, jellyfish and oysters.


Here is an excerpt from a New York Times article, published March 14, 2011, titled "No Face, but Plants Like Life Too."

"Several years ago, after having to drive for too long behind a truck full of stinking, squealing pigs being delivered for slaughter, I gave up eating meat. I'd been harboring a growing distaste for the ugliness that can be industrial agriculture, but the real issue was a long-suppressed sympathy for its — or really, my — victims. Even screaming, reeking pigs, or maybe especially screaming, reeking pigs, can evoke stark pity as they tumble along in a truck to their deaths.

If you think about it, and it's much simpler not to, it can be hard to justify other beings suffering pain, fear and death so that we can enjoy their flesh. In particular, given our many connections to animals, not least of all the fact that we are ourselves animals, it can give a person pause to realize that our most frequent contact with these kin might just be the devouring of them.

My entry into what seemed the moral high ground, though, was surprisingly unpleasant. I felt embattled not only by a bizarrely intense lust for chicken but nightmares in which I would be eating a gorgeous, rare steak — I could distinctly taste the savory drippings — from which I awoke in a panic, until I realized that I had been carnivorous only in my imagination.

Temptations and trials were everywhere. The most surprising turned out to be the realization that I couldn't actually explain to myself or anyone else why killing an animal was any worse than killing the many plants I was now eating.

Surely, I'd thought, science can defend the obvious, that slaughterhouse carnage is wrong in a way that harvesting a field of lettuces or, say, mowing the lawn is not. But instead, it began to seem that formulating a truly rational rationale for not eating animals, at least while consuming all sorts of other organisms, was difficult, maybe even impossible.

Before you hit "send" on your hate mail, let me say this. Different people have different reasons for the choices they make about what to kill or have killed for them to eat. Perhaps there isn't any choice more personal or less subject to rationality or the judgment of others. It's just that as far as I was concerned, if eating a tofu dog was as much a crime against life as eating bratwurst, then pass the bratwurst, please.

So what really are the differences between animals and plants? There are plenty. The cells of plants, and not animals, for example, harbor chloroplasts, tiny green organelles that can turn the energy of light into sugar. Almost none of these differences, however, seem to matter to any of us trying to figure out what to eat.

The differences that do seem to matter are things like the fact that plants don't have nerves or brains. They cannot, we therefore conclude, feel pain. In other words, the differences that matter are those that prove that plants do not suffer as we do. Here the lack of a face on plants becomes important, too, faces being requisite to humans as proof not only that one is dealing with an actual individual being, but that it is an individual capable of suffering.

Animals, on the other hand — and not just close evolutionary relations like chimps and gorillas, but species further afield, mammals like cows and pigs — can experience what pretty much anyone would agree is pain and suffering. If attacked, these animals will look agonized, scream, struggle and run as fast as they can. Obviously, if we don't kill any of these animals to eat them, all that suffering is avoided.

Meanwhile, whether you pluck a leaf or slice a trunk, a plant neither grimaces nor cries out. Plants don't seem to mind being killed, at least as far as we can see. But that may be exactly the difficulty.

Unlike a lowing, running cow, a plant's reactions to attack are much harder for us to detect. But just like a chicken running around without its head, the body of a corn plant torn from the soil or sliced into pieces struggles to save itself, just as vigorously and just as uselessly, if much less obviously to the human ear and eye.

When a plant is wounded, its body immediately kicks into protection mode. It releases a bouquet of volatile chemicals, which in some cases have been shown to induce neighboring plants to pre-emptively step up their own chemical defenses and in other cases to lure in predators of the beasts that may be causing the damage to the plants. Inside the plant, repair systems are engaged and defenses are mounted, the molecular details of which scientists are still working out, but which involve signaling molecules coursing through the body to rally the cellular troops, even the enlisting of the genome itself, which begins churning out defense-related proteins.

Plants don't just react to attacks, though. They stand forever at the ready. Witness the endless thorns, stinging hairs and deadly poisons with which they are armed. If all this effort doesn't look like an organism trying to survive, then I'm not sure what would. Plants are not the inert pantries of sustenance we might wish them to be.

If a plant's myriad efforts to keep from being eaten aren't enough to stop you from heedlessly laying into that quinoa salad, then maybe knowing that plants can do any number of things that we typically think of as animal-like would. They move, for one thing, carrying out activities that could only be called behaving, if at a pace visible only via time-lapse photography. Not too long ago, scientists even reported evidence that plants could detect and grow differently depending on whether they were in the presence of close relatives, a level of behavioral sophistication most animals have not yet been found to show.

To make matters more confusing, animals are not always the deep wells of sensitivity that we might imagine. Sponges are animals, but like plants they lack nerves or a brain. Jellyfish, meanwhile, which can be really tasty when cut into julienne and pickled, have no brains, only a simple net of nerves, arguably a less sophisticated setup than the signaling systems coordinating the lives of many plants. How do we decide how much sensitivity and what sort matters?

For those hoping to escape these quandaries with an all-mushroom diet, forget it. In nearly every way that you might choose to compare, fungi are likely to be more similar to us than are plants, as fungi are our closer evolutionary relations.

If you think about it, though, why would we expect any organism to lie down and die for our dinner? Organisms have evolved to do everything in their power to avoid being extinguished. How long would any lineage be likely to last if its members effectively didn't care if you killed them?

Maybe the real problem with the argument that it's okay to kill plants because they don't feel exactly as we do, though, is that it's the same argument used to justify what we now view as unforgivable wrongs.

Slavery and genocide have been justified by the assertion that some kinds of people do not feel pain, do not feel love — are not truly human — in the same way as others. The same thinking has led to other practices less drastic but still appalling. For example, physicians once withheld anesthetics from infants during surgery because it was believed that these not-quite-yet-humans did not feel pain (smiles were gas, remember).

Yet even as we shake our heads over the past, we continue to fight about where to draw the line around our tribe of those deemed truly human. We argue over whether those who love others of the same gender deserve full human rights. We ask the same about fetal humans.

The dinner menu pushes us further still. Do other species of animal deserve our consideration? Do plants? Fungi? Microbes?

Maybe this seems all nonsense to you. Perhaps you're having trouble equating a radish to a lamb to a person whose politics you hate to your beloved firstborn. It's not surprising. It is reliably difficult for us to accept new members into our tribe, the more so the less like us they seem. It can be infinitely inconvenient to take the part of every individual we come across, to share with it that most precious of commodities: compassion.

What should we have for dinner tonight? Who knows?

Human beings survive by eating other living things. I really want not only to eat, but to survive. Yet a nakedly logical way to judge the value of one kind of organism over another — the rightness of a plant's death versus an animal's — seems, to me, out of reach.

My efforts to forgo meat didn't last more than a couple of years. Still, I wonder what our great-grandchildren will think of us. Will we have trouble explaining to them why we killed animals or perhaps even plants for food? And if so, what on Earth will we be eating?"


Another fantastic, relevant article titled "10 Pieces of Evidence That Plants are Smarter Than You Think."

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Similar stamps:
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CREDITS
Public domain photos used, in the order they are presented (beautiful in full-view):
Sugar Maple Tree
Evergreen Azaleas
Nepenthes Pitcher Plant
Rose
Corn Stalks
Aloe Plant
Red Cypress Vine
Venus Flytrap
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:iconhannamaia:
~hannamaia 21 hours ago  Student Artist
I'll use it!
Reply
:iconrowlingfan12:
~RowlingFan12 May 3, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
If we don't eat plants or animals due to life problems, what DO we eat? Rocks? Hmmmmmmmmm...:iconrockplz:
Reply
:iconbeanspastries:
~Beanspastries May 2, 2013  New member Hobbyist General Artist
When I was 11, I was on Moshi Monsters and I loved their forum. Yea, they were full of the common 11 year old of this gen but I did not mind. Then one little twat made about 10 topics saying about how meat was bad, PETA shit, how macdonalds decapitates their chickens (even if they did, its probably less painful than any other method used by most meat companies) and stuff. Half of those twats believed her. But then, she then suddenly started feeling sympathetic about the goddam POTATOES they use in their fries. Would you believe, everyone then started to go on her side! Well, you might as well stop eating altogether if you don't wanna harm plants or animals. 

Such a young age to experience the rabid vegan. :cry: 
Reply
:iconcynicalserenade:
=CynicalSerenade May 2, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Eating rocks would just be simpler, wouldn't it? :stare:

I'm so sorry, let me hold you. :'c
Reply
:iconbeanspastries:
~Beanspastries May 2, 2013  New member Hobbyist General Artist
:iconcomfortplz:
Reply
:iconkaithelonechampion:
~kaithelonechampion Apr 30, 2013  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Alright. Listen, I don't give a hoot what you eat, but I do care WHY you eat it. I'm vegan. Why, you ask? Because a) it's healthier b) it pollutes less c) I just don't like meat that much. If you eat meat because "you won't get your protein" that's rubbish. Or if "you just coudn't do without the taste of meat", that's a lod of bull; just eat more and more fruit/veggies and they'll out-crowd the bad stuff (meat included, but not necessarily bad).

Eat whatever the f*ck you want, but eat it for the right reasons. I got tired of taking sh*t from M*santo and similar GMO's so I went vegan (fruitarian). I understand that you a "pro meat eater" (whoop dee doo), but if you'D take just ONE day per week, and decide to not eat meat (you can still eat animal products) then pollution and meat industry production would go down. And honestly, why over produce, whether it be meat or greenhouse gasses?
Reply
:iconkapieren:
~kapieren May 1, 2013  Professional General Artist
Alright. Listen, I don't give a hoot what you eat, but I do care WHY you eat it.


If you care why someone eats something then you, by definition care what they eat.

I'm vegan. Why, you ask? Because a) it's healthier b) it pollutes less c) I just don't like meat that much.


Omnivorous diets can be just as healthy. The problem isn't the meat itself, it's what parts of the animals you eat (in some cases) and how active your lifestyle is.

I come from a family of farmers on my dad's side. Most of the people on that side died well into their 80's and 90's if not their 100's. They ate a lot of meat, they needed the amount of protein and nutrition that is easer to access in meat than they would've gotten had they eaten salads because they worked 12 hours a day doing laborious work.

None of them died from complications common to those who eat too much of certain meats and who live sedentary lifestyles. All died from simple old age.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, you can harm and pollute the environment with vegetation and similar crops just as much as you can with livestock.

If you eat meat because "you won't get your protein" that's rubbish.


Meat is the easiest access to high quantities of protein with nuts coming in second.

just eat more and more fruit/veggies and they'll out-crowd the bad stuff (meat included, but not necessarily bad).


What "bad stuff?"

Eat whatever the f*ck you want, but eat it for the right reasons.


So you're now saying it's perfectly fine to eat meat?

And honestly, why over produce, whether it be meat or greenhouse gasses?


Food as a whole is overproduced in America. There are millions of tons of food that are wasted each year that is never touched, most of it is arguably vegetation as it has a shorter lifespan.
Reply
:iconkaithelonechampion:
~kaithelonechampion May 2, 2013  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Touché. It woudl seem I do have to plan ahead when I want to explain myself 0.o

Had I properly planned, I probably would have said something similar to what you have said :S

And you're right. I just believe that for most (about like what, 99%)of the peole living in first world countries it might be better, because they lead a sedentary lifestyle :S

And how'd you do that with my comment, having it in your's in smaller size? :)
Reply
:iconsulfide:
Funny how you don't mention hunting. You are not a vegan. You are killing by proxy. You are a fake and a fraud. Hunting is by far the most healthiest way to live in this world. Take off your blinders and see the whole picture. Where do you get your greens? Where do you get your vegetables? Where do you think that land once belonged to, all of the animals, etc...

Ugh. I've already had to deal with these dumbass comments too many times. Here you go: [link]
Reply
:iconkaithelonechampion:
~kaithelonechampion May 1, 2013  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Ok, wait. Before I say anything, why are you being so disrespectful? Albeit I did swear, It was only to get my point across, I never called you names, so please don't call me names.

Now, how is hunting "by far the most healthiest way to live in this world"? Where the "meat" is no longer meat because of all the GMO's (except if you buy bio, of course). I get my plants bio, not from big super market chains, full of pesticides and poison (figuretively speaking).

The meat sector pollutes so much more than vegans "getting their greens". Why? the methane from the animals, the energy used by the transportation, the factory to kill and transform them, and the transportation of the meat to the supermarkets. The animals themlselves are mistreated for (apparently) no reason; they separate the calves from the cows; the chickens are (literally) stepping on each other; they live in their own feces. Does that sound healthy?

Lastly, aside from vitamin B12. meat doesn't give you that many benefits. You get your vitamins and minerals (protein too!) from eating greens. Pollution from getting green: using a bit of land, growing it and transporting it.

I don't know for you, but I honestly do not see why eating much is "most" healthier than being vegan.
Reply
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